Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Memories.
[00:00:00] Speaker B: Passion.
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Alone.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: Mourn.
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Guilt.
[00:00:03] Speaker B: Loneliness.
[00:00:04] Speaker A: Regret.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Peace.
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Relationships.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Unfamiliar.
[00:00:08] Speaker A: If you put God first, you'll never be last.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: This is Grief at the Cookout, hosted by DiCarlo Raspberry.
Hello, family.
Welcome to grief at the cookout. Today I am joined by Pamela R. Brown, affectionately called on this podcast auntie Pam.
Pamela is an experienced mental health professional with over 20 years of demonstrated success as an author, impact leader, strategist, and human services practitioner. Professionally, astute in human services, behavioral Health, emotional Intelligence, strategic leadership, capacity building, program design, and Implementation. Pamela is the chief impact leader of Power Up life boss and the proud author of You Got this, a Journal for Intentional Living, an executive director, board president, graduate fellow of George Washington University and graduate of Lincoln University, and soon to be Dr. Pamela R. Brown, studying at Morgan State University. Tune in to this Impactful episode as Pamela and I discuss the topics of emotional intelligence, relationship management, self evaluation, and relational being surrounding grief, depression, and suicide.
Miss Pam oh, I feel like I have an auntie on the podcast today.
Miss Pam. Welcome to grief at the cookout.
[00:02:07] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. To call out. I am happy to be at the cookout.
[00:02:14] Speaker B: I'm so glad you're here. I'm really glad you're here. Background story.
You all. I met Miss Pam when I was doing a show earlier this year called Girls of Madison Street, which I talked about in the last episode by Ayanna Blake. And she came not once, but twice.
That's right. And she stayed back for a talk back.
Just so many questions were going on, and she was just giving so much insight. And so I had to get her on the podcast.
I had to. I'm just glad you're here. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us today.
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness, Takara, I can't thank you enough for even extending the invitation to me. And let me be that proud auntie to applaud you on the work that you're doing, because you're not just doing work, but you are a change agent as well as you're making Impact. And it's something about especially for those of us who work also in a nonprofit world, when you're talking about your return on your investment, right? And many times when you're working with the community or the people that we serve, and particularly now, talking about grief and sorrow and all that's going on in our world, it's hard for those investors, whoever they are or those stakeholders, to get an immediate return on what they think of their investment in the game.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: That's good, right?
[00:03:44] Speaker A: But there's another ROI that I like to talk about that I see that you're mastering it already. And it's the return on impact.
Your return on impact is every bit, every ounce that you do, whether it's a kind word, whether it's going the extra mile, spending extra time sacrificing something that you know that's investing as well as being able to make impact. Whether you see it or not, you better believe you're going to see the return of the impact.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: I appreciate that. Oh my goodness. I'm getting a little watery teary eyed over here. I've never heard anyone talk about the return of impact and doing this.
I'm not doing this for personal gain. I'm not doing this to gain notoriety. But I realized that there is a healing that needs to take place. And in our community, we don't talk about certain things. And not just in our community, but everywhere. There's things that we just don't talk about that are taboo. And it was like this unctioning and this push that I got from God to say talk about the hard things and when you give a yes, everybody else is going to fall into place. So I really appreciate that.
I needed to hear that one right there.
[00:05:18] Speaker A: Yes. And just the title of your show, of your platform, grief at the Cookout. Well, where do we come together the most? We love to come together. Right where there's food.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: Come on, talk about it at the family reunion. I don't know about you, but I was raised on Sunday dinners.
[00:05:36] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: My grandmother used to prepare Sunday dinner as if it was Thanksgiving every week. And it was because it's where our family came together. You talked about everything.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: Talked about everything. And you know what, it's funny that you say that because there's a question that I like to ask all my guests when they come on the show, and that is what is your favorite cookout? Food.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: Everything.
Look, everything.
Okay.
Everything. I love a good cookout because for me, it's not just the food, it's the entire experience.
[00:06:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:16] Speaker A: I mean, from driving up to wherever it is and being able to smell that smoke from the grill, the hot grease from the fried fish that's going on on one side, the music in the back as I'm walking, as you're driving.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Parking. That's right.
[00:06:35] Speaker A: Driving and parking, all of that is part of the experience.
And so my favorite food, let me think. Everybody can't do my favorite food. And that's potato salad.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: Listen, talk about it. We don't eat everybody potato salad there.
Oh my goodness. I love it. I love it. And that's how I like to start out. I like to start off on that good old high note. Because like you said before, we come together in fellowship and food is always there. And when you come, people have arguments over food. People make peace over food. We talk about food. We talk about who food we go eat and who we not going to eat.
[00:07:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. Clearly we make that very clear.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: Yes we do. Yes we do. So folks, as we are closing out our mental health awareness month, we had ayanna blake last week and this week we have Ms. Pamela Brown.
Today we're going to talk about grief. We're going to talk about depression, and we're going to talk about that taboo subject of suicide.
It's something that has been plaguing our community. And the suicide rate amongst African Americans is so high right now, and especially in black men.
And it's something that I don't think is talked about enough. But I also believe that there's not enough education on what is grief and what is depression. And we know that grief can lead us to depression. And me speaking for myself, upon losing my father, I didn't realize that I was falling into a depression. And I didn't realize it until I hit rock bottom. And then I'm like, something is going on that's not making no sense to me. And I realized that I needed to seek some type of counsel, seek some help, because I was dealing with grief that I didn't that thing that you deal with grief about that you really don't deal with, right? And it led me into a depression where I was snapping at people, and I was not the kindest person, I wasn't the nicest person, and I just didn't understand why.
So, Ms. Pam, on this podcast, we talk about grief. We talk about the absence of joy, and we create this big umbrella because under it is so many different circumstances that causes an absence of joy. So when we talk about grief, just kind of school us.
What is your thoughts on grief and your thoughts on depression?
[00:09:40] Speaker A: I think the very first thing, and not because I'm just trained as a behavioral health specialist, but I think one of the most important things is that we have to, first of all, just recognize it for what it is.
Right? You have to recognize it because one of the behaviors that we talk about that many people do it, whether it's intentionally or not, is denying an avoidance. Those many times are coping mechanisms to deal with the grief. To deal with depression. If I would just avoid it or it's over there, I put it on the shelf because right now I have to be this person. So my work and what I love is the theory of emotional intelligence.
Emotional intelligence. And I'm not even going to get.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: Too clinical, but it's okay if you do. It's okay if you do.
[00:10:38] Speaker A: Let's talk about so we all can know what it is.
Emotional intelligence is the ability one to recognize your own emotions.
And because you recognize your own emotions, you realize that that drives your thinking and it drives your behavior.
Now you're talking about grief and depression. Can I be transparent on this show?
[00:11:07] Speaker B: Yes, please, go ahead.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: Okay.
Just yesterday, I had a very close friend, almost like a nephew.
He pleaded for an emotional support.
Pleaded? When someone plead because people are like, well, what are the signs? First of all, pay attention to that body language. His eyes were practically bulging. He was sweating. His stance was all in my face. That, to me, is a sign of desperation. I need help.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: So we have to pay attention to the outward, we have to pay attention to the inward.
People are not going to just walk around necessarily with a sign that says, hey, I'm about to commit suicide on Friday. So you all be on the watch out. No.
There are behaviors that we can pay attention to. If there's somebody that you know is just very lively, engaging the life of the party, and then a while you see them every time, and they either withdrawn, they're super chill, you just know that they're out of character.
There might be something going on with that person. So it's important when you say, well, what do we do? It's important to check in on people. First of all, check in on yourself.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: Come on, talk about it, right?
[00:12:39] Speaker A: Let's check in with self. Be true to yourself.
People say, oh, my goodness, she's crazy. She's talking to herself. You better believe I talk to myself sometimes, because sometimes that audio not that it just stays in my head or my mind, but sometimes I have to say it to hear, pam, are you really thinking that way? Did you really mean to say that? So I'm constantly self evaluating myself before even dealing with certain things.
[00:13:20] Speaker B: Self evaluation, because I can't speak for no one else. So all I can draw on is my situation and what I went through.
Not that, I guess, but I know there was that moment of denial and what I had realized, for me, it wasn't the death of my dad that I was grieving. It was everything that happened within my family that I was grieving. And oftentimes we have people, and I think that's something that we don't talk about is when we lose something or we lose someone or a job or an opportunity.
Sometimes it's everything that happens in between and not exactly that particular loss, if that makes sense, you know what I mean?
And I never really understood it until I went through it.
And I'm realizing the things that happen with my family, the lies that were told, you know how we do black folks when people die, we want to take over. We got that takeover spirit. We want to do this, we want to do that.
And I understand that that is coping for people.
There's things that were left unsaid, and so people are trying to overcompensate and trying to figure out how they're going to navigate, so they do these things. But what it's doing is it's causing more hurt and more harm to the situation, and it's not helping. And so people walk away from moments of grief scarred because it's everyone trying to cope, but everyone is bumping heads, you know what I mean? And it causes all of that deep sadness and that deep hurt, and you are trying to figure out why you're angry. And I realized I'm angry because of what my family did and how they acted. I came to peace with my dad passing. Although it hurts, I'm grieving it. And I recognize that, and I realize that. But I was in denial about the fact that I was mad and that I was angry.
And so I see that emotional intelligence kicking in.
But talk to me a little bit about, if you can, how that grief that we experience leads us into this depression hold.
Because for me, I didn't realize the emotional intelligence didn't kick in until I realized I'm really mean to people. I'm taking my anger out on people, and I don't want to get out of bed, I don't want to do anything. I don't want to be bothered with people. And then I realize, and it took me a long time to say I'm depressed because I've never been in this place before. So it was hard to realize I'm actually in this place. And I think that a lot of people are in that denial stage that they are in this place, especially off coming out of this pandemic, whether from your professional point of view, from your personal point of view, why is it that we get and we hit rock bottom and then we realize something is wrong?
[00:17:34] Speaker A: It goes back to, first of all, how you said that you define grief as that absence. Right? Many times people use just the term grief when we're talking about death.
You not only experience grief during a death. You can experience grief in the absence of a loss of a job, the loss of a pet, having to shift relocate, all kinds of there are many, several forms of grief. But the thing that we have to do, first of all is realize it is grief. Grief is a natural emotion. There's nothing strange about it. It's not abnormal when you experience it. You're not the crazy one, because we don't like grief is real. It's a real emotion. Now, the last time I looked at you, Takarla, we weren't created as robots.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: Come on.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: We're not robotic.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: No, not at all.
[00:18:35] Speaker A: Right. We were created to be relational being. That was the intention, to be a relational being. So when we talk about grief and then how that can segue into depression, I say this either the grief will manage you, or you can manage the grief. I didn't say take it away. I said the key word there is manage. Who's going to manage who. Is the grief going to manage you or are you going to manage your grief?
So then hopefully you spend time with the person most yourself. So I know what it takes for Pam to manage my grief. And it's not always the same platform each time I experience grief. I lost my dad several years ago. My dad and I were like, thick and thin. You talk me every day. And I did slip into what I call depression, but I learned how to manage it versus it managing me.
One, I knew for surface what it is now. Two, what can Pam do to manage the grief? So that's part of the whole process, so that it won't lead into the depression is, well, what can I do?
I started thinking, what would my father have me do? Eating? My dad loved eat crabs. He was a seafood lover. Do some things that he liked to do. So I could still hold on to those good times without forfeiting or avoiding or denying, though, my feelings of grief. So I learned to manage it.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: Now, that brings up another question that I have for you, because I know this is something that I think people don't realize.
But when we're managing the grief, oftentimes we fall into an unhealthy way of managing the grief that leads to addictions and just unhealthy ways of living, mental thoughts, et cetera, et cetera. And so you mentioned holding that place of your dad, of holding on to those good memories and engaging in those activities that you all had did together.
How can one stray away from the unhealthy addictions like sex addictions and drugs while they're learning how to cope?
[00:21:33] Speaker A: Well, one thing is when you're talking about those type of behaviors, oftentimes it's to escape, right? You're talking yeah, you want to escape whatever it is. I want to escape this feeling that's making me feel bad. I want to escape this relationship.
I may know I shouldn't be in it. I love him. I love her.
So escapism is real. So determining, okay, I need to get away from this. But are drugs the right way to do it? Is excessive drinking the right way to do it? Is sexting.
So the key word here is moderation.
[00:22:14] Speaker B: Come on.
[00:22:16] Speaker A: It's moderation. Now, again, we're human, we're relational. So some of that stuff is not going to stop. But it's the excessiveness, it's the extreme which causes those behaviors to become the addictions. So again, you got to know yourself. Well, what do I love? Well, for me, it might be a matter if I had some time to turn on some Earth, Wind and Fire and listen to the greatest hits.
What's the group now? What's his name? Silksonic with Bruno Mars in it. You know what I'm saying? See, those are feel good songs to me. So we call that grounding. It helps me to be grounded and escape in my mind for just a little bit so that I will not indulge in the behaviors that I know I shouldn't be indulging in or engaging in.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: That's good. I think that lots of know we have again, I can only speak for our know from my point of view of being black and in America, but we deal with a lot of generational curses. Yes, it comes out when we're trying to escape. And I like that, that you use that that escapism but like you said, in moderation.
But there's a healthy way of coping.
[00:23:49] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:23:50] Speaker B: And finding an escape, but escape into a place where you can, like you said, fill those memories, get to that place, whether it's writing again, whether it's performing.
I had lost quite a few jobs performing from the Pandemic, and I was sitting at home, and it wasn't until it kind of all crashed down on me from being home for, like, two months. We're like, okay, I still have a job. I'm still making money, but I lost my outlet. And so now what do I do?
What does a creative do?
[00:24:37] Speaker A: Right?
[00:24:38] Speaker B: And so it's like when a creative is left to do nothing, they're itching to break forth. They're itching to do something. And so I was presented with to do some opportunities of just singing and doing a lot of online work and different things like that. But it also took a level of initiation from my part to say, okay, there's something that I can be doing. I need to just search for it. Because the Pandemic kind of put people in this idle time where it was a moment for us to rest. For those people who work day in and day out, it was a moment that God said, okay, now sit down.
It's time for you to rest, and that's okay. But then as we rested, we got too comfortable, and then we got a little idle. And then as we got idle, you let those thoughts kind of start to fester.
And that's where I think people started to realize, okay, I'm grieving, but like you said, how are you managing this grief?
And I think that it's important that those of you who are listening realize that it's okay to, as Auntie Pam said, because she's an auntie of this podcast now to say, I am grieving, and that's okay. And it's okay to say, I'm feeling depressed, and that's okay, because that is a feeling. But now you have to find a way to manage it and manage it in the most healthy, healthy way.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: Yes, you said it. And one thing in particular for our community, communities of color, the stigma that's associated with mental health.
[00:26:40] Speaker B: Yeah, talk about it.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: Let's seek a professional notice. I said professional, licensed, certified, therapist, counselor, or behavioral health professional without feeling like I can't let anybody know that I'm going to do this. I'm getting up early before I go to work to do nobody can know that I'm seeing no, you are doing the right thing.
That's why we have health insurance and other benefits. When you need to call out sick, sometimes you need to call out for a mental health day. Yeah, because I used to tell folks sometimes, look, you will want me to call out today because I am not fit for human interaction. That's what I used to tell my team.
I am not fit for human interaction. It was good for me to take that time away, and it was also good for them because my thing is, like Tabitha Brown says, don't go and mess up somebody else's day because of your.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: Like you were know, because see, that's the outburst, the adult temper tantrums, the misbehavior, the nasty attitude, see, those are all outward expressions of stuff that we're not dealing with in a healthy manner.
And if you don't manage that grief, if you don't recognize it, if you don't recognize that you are depressed, let's just keep on being transparent. If you don't even acknowledge that you might be having suicidal thoughts, that's the red zone. We're in danger. Call it for what it is. Call a spade, you know, card games. Call the spade a spade.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: Call that emotion. Call that behavior. Call that feeling for what it is.
Because if you don't truly call it and be your authentic self, you can't get the authentic help, the authentic assistance that you need to deal with the root of whatever's going on.
It's so many copycats. Boy, I tell you, social media got us thinking that we all are superstars.
Everybody got a like. Everybody got a like, everybody no, be you. You don't have to post every bit of your day, all of your bit. First of all, who cares besides you?
Who cares?
[00:29:23] Speaker B: Come on, be transparent. Who cares? Who cares?
[00:29:27] Speaker A: Who cares?
So don't let that social media celebrity stuff get in your way of your journey.
[00:29:36] Speaker B: Yeah, because, you know, with this thing.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: Called life is a journey, it's a path.
So don't let that distract you from what really is your real purpose, your real calling, what you're destined to do.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: You're talking good.
You know what just came to mind that so often we are trying, especially with social media, because social media, you got to learn how to use it.
It's a tool. Use it as a tool. It's not something that should make you feel like you have to be the next thing or you have to catch up. It's a tool because you can get lost in this world. And what's happening now with the millennial age, my age group, and what's happening in the school systems, the children right now, they feel this pressure, this peer pressure to keep up and to keep going. And what's happening is they're dealing with grief because this person didn't like my post. This person didn't share this. This person we're the ones, like you said, care. We're the ones that care about it. But we have to find a way, and I think that goes with changing our perception and changing our conception and our perspective on this journey, as you said, and knowing that we have assignments.
[00:31:12] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: And these assignments sometimes are not pretty.
Sometimes it takes you through a moment where it's not all about you. And I believe that we have to learn how to serve and serve in a way where things do not affect us, but when we get to a place where we're looking for the next like or to become the next viral sensation, we are experiencing bouts of grief. And because we're trying to keep up, we're not managing it. And then we fall into depression. And because people feel like they're not being seen or that they're not being heard in their quest to some type of success through social media, then they decide to take their lives.
And because people don't speak from an educated point of view, when they're on social media, you have people hiding behind phones and behind computers that when they make statements, they are giant in their state making.
They're so strong, but they don't have no type of education or nothing, no type of license behind it.
And we allow these people to bully us into depression, bully us into grief, and bully us into suicidal thoughts.
[00:32:43] Speaker A: Yes, I know so many, and I'll talk about the young ladies high schoolers who feel that, and I think it's attributed to their social media presence that they have to go to school made up to the gods, glamorous every day. And I'm like, lady, I need you to have that type of attention towards your books.
But the pressure that you're speaking of, this is who they see me. This is who they've come to know me as. This is what I have to do. And so, again, that distraction on what your assignment is, you're lost because you're so caught up on the surface, but not the substance.
[00:33:30] Speaker B: Wait a minute, say that again. That was good.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: You're caught up on the surface, but not the substance.
Because, see, the surface can be scraped away. Yeah, but when I'm talking about the substance, that's what's holding it all together. There's a difference. And I'm trying to teach folks, and I'm trying to model in my own life, it's all about the substance, not the surface.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: Goodness me, that's good. That's a word. Well, that's it, y'all. Look, I mean, you are dropping gems. I mean, you are truly dropping gems. So Auntie Pam has a now, correct me if I'm wrong, it's a journal.
[00:34:27] Speaker A: It's a journal entitled You Got this.
[00:34:31] Speaker B: Yeah, talk about that.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: When you talked earlier about what type of tools, what kind of mechanisms do people have?
I used to do trainings across the country to folks in particular, to clinicians, and their clients would say, you all tell us to deal with our emotions and our feelings. But many clients will say, but how do I capture that?
That was one of the things. There were several things, but that was part of my inspiration to create a journal. Each page has an affirmation and a positive quotation. There's poetry in there, there's self care tips. But each page, because everybody, let's be honest, everybody's not going to go see a therapist. Everybody's not going to go see a counselor. Even if that's available. It may not even be accessible to me or affordable to me, but that journal is a tool where you can write your heart out or that day when you just come home and say, I just need to write one word on a page. But it's that capturing those feelings, it's capturing those emotions, it's capturing those goals and those plans all in your sacred space so that you can look at your growing points. Because I look back in January and call, I'll be like, what was going on with me then? But I was writing this.
But it's part of me. One of my terms that I love to say is, I'm growing forward.
[00:36:07] Speaker B: That's good.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: Mind, body, and soul. But I always want to grow forward because life has so many lessons. And so as you're enduring and engaging in those lessons, you can either go backwards or you can grow forward. And so my choice notice I said my choice. Your choice is to grow forward. Because if it was based upon my emotions, if it was based upon some of the people that are in my circle, family, you can't get rid of them. Friends, family, you're stuck with, and you don't get to pick them. So I got to choose that's, that emotion going back to that emotional intelligence piece, because one of the components of emotional intelligence is relationship management.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: Yeah. It's based upon the theorist. His name is Daniel Goldman. It's four components to that theory. The first one is self awareness.
The second is self management.
Third, social awareness.
And the fourth component is relationship management.
That's how he conceptualizes emotional intelligence. We go through all four components every day.
That second one, you can't manage self if you are doing the first piece, aware of what's going on with self.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: Listen, because I know that if something is going on, I'm not the one you need to talk to today.
[00:37:46] Speaker A: Right. So if I'm not aware of what's going on with me, how can I manage that?
[00:37:52] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:37:53] Speaker A: And then you're going to send me out into the social piece, whether it's the digital social world, whether it's my home, and then relationship management.
That's what emotional intelligence is all about. And for folks are looking at their careers. Many employers now, especially some of the larger corporations, they're doing not just your IQ, they're looking at what your emotional quotient is. How would you handle, you know, those question is, well, if you were in this situation, DiCarlo, and if this happened to you, DiCarlo on the job, well, who would be the first person you'd and so you would call that rationale. Why would you call Ayanna versus pam? So that's all about I want to check where your emotions are.
[00:38:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:51] Speaker A: Who are you calling? Who's in that circle of trust that you know, that you can rely on, that you can let it all out? What's that circle look like? And. Trust me, as we're on this life journey, I tell people that circle is not going to look the same.
[00:39:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not at all.
First of all, if you all didn't get it, go ahead and rewind it and write this down because this is what we need and sometimes we need tools. Now you all getting this for free and that's okay. That's fine because that's what this podcast is here for, to give you tools. If you decide that you don't want to go to a therapist and that's okay, but you got to find a way to manage it. Now, before we get into some more tools, let's circle back around to this.
We talked about grief, we talked about depression, but let's talk about suicide.
I'm really interested in hearing your point of view from the behavioral health specialists, especially on suicide, and why people decide to take their lives. I know there's so many reasons, but I know you have said what are the signs? People ask, what are the signs? People ask all the time, what are the signs? But then what I ask is what got this person to that lowest point to decide that I have no worth to live, no one can keep me here, not even a thought in my mind that I love myself or even that God. That somebody, if God don't love me, I love me enough to keep me here.
It is sad. It hurts because it's happening so much. And as I mentioned before, it's happening a lot in our community. It's just an uptick of just constant people. I remember seeing it was like a video that surfaced like last month of this man jumping off a highway bridge and just ending his life right there. And everyone was trying to stop him from doing it. And people cars were stopping the highway. People were just stopping on the highway and pulling over and trying to help him and then he was just gone.
So what is your speak on that, if he can?
[00:42:07] Speaker A: Sure.
Especially in our community, and I'll talk about it from a family perspective, from a faith based setting. There are still two taboo words.
I call them the s words. Sex is still hard topic to talk about. And suicide.
Sex and suicide. But if we don't talk about it, how will we address it? How will we recognize it? When you think about there's no real rhyme and that's the hard part about suicide. There's no real rhyme or reason to it.
Once the person is gone, we can't come and ask them because people always want to know what drove her to that?
What made him do that? They're gone. So we're left behind as spectators of life, spectators like those detectives. We're trying to pull the pieces together, but we will never ever know because that person is gone.
And so here comes another term. Mindfulness paying attention to that present. What's going on right now, like I talked earlier about social media, so many people, and particularly young people, because that's what they rely on as far as their character and their definition of character. When something happens at the school, at the party, at the game or something, the secret got out. See, it's not those times when we get hush it now we go put it all out, all the pictures. We're going to post everything on social media. So that person that they're talking about, I can't control it.
I can't control I can't keep clicking delete. That's not me. No, because the pictures, that is you.
So I'm losing control when something is spinning out of control, and I can't think of how I'm going to mend this or fix it. And the only way is to check out shame, the guilt. Not just me, my family.
I'm assessing my self worth. They'll be better off if I'm not here. Then they don't even have to deal. So when we ask, well, what's going on with suicide? These are things that people are dealing with and contemplating. And that's why it's so important when we talk about the behaviors and the addictions.
Because let's just think, let's just say something got out about Pam on Facebook, and then I resort to drinking.
I'm going to wind this thing down. I'm going to tequila. This is how I'm going to do so. Now my frame of mind is altered. So I'm not even able to make the best decision on how to deal with what's going on because my mind is gone because the behaviors so if you are making that kind of decision and those type of behaviors are going on, you may not even realize the extreme to go to suicide. That person may not have even wanted to commit suicide.
But because I'm engaging in some of those behaviors, or even if I am aware, it's the extremities, it's the coping, what does my support circle look like? Did anybody ever tell me that no matter what I do or no matter what I say, that you're still going to love me? See, that's what that unconditional love is.
And a lot of people will say, oh, I'm in her corner. I'm in his corner.
Be careful. Because, see, we're human.
Whether it's intentional, that Ugliness, that being affiliated with Ugliness, that's some real stuff.
See, because even with the suicide, that family still has to deal with the questions.
Once that person is gone, those friends still have to answer questions.
So it doesn't go away. See, that's what I want to tell people. Because you do that or even think about it, it doesn't go away.
It just leaves the spectators and your family, friends, and close associates. Now we got a job. Now we got to try to figure out and answer stuff that we don't even have an answer to.
[00:47:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:32] Speaker A: Bullying. Bullying in the workplace. We talk about school.
Bullying happens in the workplace.
People get pushed to do things that they don't want to do in the church. You know you didn't want to you know, you did not want to be the president of the choir. Not this year, because I got this going on, this going on, but because they kept telling you, go ahead, girl, do it. We got you. And then when you need to help and they not there, those same people that say, we'll help you, oh, I'm too busy because I'm going to Vegas this weekend, girl, I don't have yeah, those same people.
So then you start becoming isolated.
You start withdrawing because how many times you're going to ask for help?
And every time I ask, it can't come.
People think if they ask me for finances, no help comes. Sometimes I just need five minutes of your time.
I don't necessarily want you to give me any answers. I need you to listen.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:41] Speaker A: I didn't say, do you hear what I say? Hearing and listening, there's a difference between those two. I want you just to listen for five minutes. Let me get this off my chest, because I've been carrying this.
See, those are the things that help people to get through past. Okay?
But when you start feeling isolated, I'm the only person that's going through this, whatever that is, the only way out in my mind is suicide.
[00:49:15] Speaker B: MMM.
Now, that was a good breakdown.
That makes you consider it kind of makes you consider what your responses are to people who even if that wasn't a thought, but it makes you think if this person has asked for help and I've denied it to them, I didn't help in them not feeling like they are losing control make you feeling like that you're losing control.
Even relating, just thinking about characters I've played in plays or in musicals where they are spiraling out of control. Yes, but I never really thought about that piece of the puzzle. You're losing control. You're asking for help. And I think that sometimes, like you said, it doesn't mean that the person is looking for monetary gain or they just need a listening ear. Not someone to hear them, but for someone to listen.
Sometimes people don't feel that they are understood. I remember growing up, and I always had to make my point because I felt like no one understood me, and I just felt like no one actually listened.
And so I see that.
That's good. Thank you. Thank you for that, because that makes a person start to consider your responses to people.
We always say, Maya Angelou says, people will forget what you said to them, but they will always remember how you made them feel, how you made them feel.
And our responses, how we respond to people, the tone of your voice, the attack of the words, how you're coddling the words, is it demeaning?
Is it making a person feel less than right?
Those things attribute to these feelings. But like you said, when I start to feel like I can't control something, so I resort to a coping mechanism, an escaped ism of drinking, of drugs, of sex, of sex coupled with drugs and drinking. And constantly, constantly. You're not in a frame of mind where you can't think.
[00:52:16] Speaker A: You can't. It could be something as simple as shopping.
[00:52:21] Speaker B: Listen.
[00:52:23] Speaker A: You hear people talk about retail therapy.
[00:52:27] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:52:27] Speaker A: And you know you can't afford that. But at the moment, that's why that mindfulness piece is so important. But at the moment, it's making you feel good.
But all the while, come June 1, my rent is going to be due, pepco the water, and guess what? The electric company don't want to hear about you needed some retail therapy to help you get through whatever it was. No. In the meantime, we're going to shut your lights off until you get some real help.
[00:53:01] Speaker B: Come on. You talking. Keep it real.
[00:53:04] Speaker A: So again, those type of behaviors, they alter your mind and your decision make and the capability to make healthy decisions.
I didn't say perfect decisions. I said healthy decisions.
[00:53:21] Speaker B: Yeah, that's mental health.
[00:53:25] Speaker A: That's what mental health is. And the church, when I talk about the church and the faith, we got to get past it's more than just pray about it.
[00:53:33] Speaker B: Come on, now you're talking real good. Go ahead, baby.
[00:53:40] Speaker A: That person has the V word. Their vulnerability.
I've shared. I've poured all of that snot quiet. All of that, the emotions.
And after all of that, you're going to hug me real tight and say, let's just pray about it.
I believe in the power of prayer. I also believe in the power that God has designed professionals to help me to deal with what I'm doing. God has created other people that might not be in the church setting that I can get. So, yes, there's more to it than pray about it. Yeah, because that's how a lot of people let's be real, a lot of people lose faith in who God is, who Jesus is, because I prayed about it, and I'm still drinking.
I prayed about it, and I'm still sleeping with her husband.
I'm praying, but nobody talks about the prayer requires action.
Not just to be a hearer of the Word, but you got to be a doer of the Word. And nehemiah is that the people had a mindset to work.
Prayer requires the work, the action for change.
[00:55:04] Speaker B: Do your work. Yana says it all the time.
[00:55:08] Speaker A: You got to do your work.
[00:55:09] Speaker B: Do your work.
[00:55:10] Speaker A: Yes, he's going to do his part, he said, but I also equipped you to do your part. Were you doing this and you're doing that. In the book of Ephesians, for those of us who are the believers, it says that the power is in us. You're looking for the power in every person, every place. At the casinos doing that, you're looking for the power that's already in you. It's your job to ignite the fire because it's only going to work if you do that.
[00:55:44] Speaker B: And that goes back to exactly what I said of we got to that idle place, but we had to take initiation for ourselves. We had to take the initiative to decide, hey, I need to do X, Y and Z because I'm getting a little too stagnant in what I'm doing. I'm not seeing some type of growth. And I know that we get frustrated because we're stuck or we feel stuck. I'll say that where we feel like there's no progression. And sometimes that means that there's something that we've been putting off that we need to do. There's another assignment for us to be doing other than what we think it is. And in those quiet moments, like you said, and something just kind of hit my brain when you had talked about your journal, but even Journaling, I know everyone doesn't do it, but there has to be some type of outlet, and sometimes we have to be willing to give journaling a try.
I know my outlet is performing when I step onto the stage and when I'm in rehearsals and when I'm singing, I'm expelling the stress. Like I'm putting that into my character moments and putting that into my feelings, and I'm letting that fuel everything that I'm dealing with, all of that stress. So I'm releasing that. But when you don't have a place to release and you don't feel like you have a safe space, because that's another thing that we don't talk about are the safe space. People don't make spaces safe anymore. Everyone has opinions and everyone has their thoughts on and everyone feels like they know more than everybody. And no one wants to sit down and just kind of glean and no one wants to sit and learn. You're never too old to learn more. I learn new stuff every day.
[00:58:08] Speaker A: Every day.
[00:58:09] Speaker B: Big head of mine get big head big every day because I'm learning something and I like to learn more. I like to talk to people and have those intelligent conversations. So then I think for you listeners out there, can you consider changing your circle, changing the people that you're talking to, changing who you're talking to, about what you're talking about?
You can't share everything. You can't talk about everything. And sometimes you got to keep things to yourself until it came to fruition.
There were a lot of people that I did not tell about this podcast. When they found out about the podcast, everybody else found out about it. I couldn't share this endeavor with everyone because I realized not everybody is in your corner.
Everyone is not there for your success. And sometimes we're looking for people to celebrate with us, but you got to be able to identify who that is and identify who's there. Because sometimes when we're looking for celebration, sometimes we need correction.
Sometimes we need people that are going to be honest with us and say, okay, that's nice. Well, have you thought about X, Y and Z? This helps me to be a better person. This helps to be a better person. So then when it's released, they are celebrating with you. But not only are they celebrating with you, but they're standing by you. I have a friend of mine who I check in, he helps me to check in. Like I check in with him and I say, this is what's happening with the podcast. He said, okay, that sounds good. And then what his mind is going to now is we got to find a way now to get this on a larger scale.
And he was like, you can't just do this for this moment. You have to keep doing this. Those are the type of people that you want in your corner that's going to continue to push you and push you in a healthy way. Who's there for your endeavors? Who's there for you personally but who's there for you in endeavors outside of that personal realm of friendship?
[01:00:30] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:00:34] Speaker B: Again, I have enjoyed myself with all the guests that have been on here because I've gained friendships. Even with meeting you. In the short span of meeting you, I realized, wait a minute, that was a God ordained divine connection because there's something that you have that I need, that somebody else needs.
And like you said, when we start to walk into our authenticity and our authentic self and our purpose, we realize that I am now straying away from those thoughts. I'm not letting those thoughts wear me down because I realize there's a bigger picture.
[01:01:22] Speaker A: Yes.
Now you talk about me. You said a word.
You said a word because you have to be so mindful of even sharing success or if it's a challenge or a problem with whomever because folks will sabotage you. Whether it's intentional. Come on, that's real.
You know what you're supposed to do. But then you keep hearing now and you're, well, is this really the time? Should I really be doing the podcast or maybe I should be writing the content but maybe somebody else should be the producer or should I wait till maybe this is not the year you start doubting and time doesn't stop. So while you're doubting and now you then gone and distract, time is steady going on. So what you said your goal was to have this done by January 1 and you didn't checked in with all these people because you need some validation or whatever it is that you want to do. Here comes June, we're halfway through the year now. You try, maybe another year has gone by or whatever.
Do what you're supposed to do.
Don't do the bojangle. I have a friend that he calls it the bojangle where you're trying to dance and prance and see what the other people going to say about what you're doing? No, you do you and be okay with doing you and keep it moving.
[01:03:01] Speaker B: That's right. And so can you just this for free, y'all. So you ain't going to get everything, but this is for free. But when people are in these bouts of grief, in falling into depression, whether they realize it, whether they've come to realize it or they don't know or they're even questioning their existence, they feel like they're spiraling out of control.
Can you give us some tips, some strategies that we can do to kind of rectify or kind of get us to a place of realization before we fall into these deep pits of thought?
[01:04:08] Speaker A: I think that's so situational. I wish I could give a blanket response to that, but it's so situational. I think one of the biggest things that we can do though, is take ownership of self.
[01:04:22] Speaker B: That's good.
[01:04:23] Speaker A: Whatever's going on, take ownership of self.
Whether it's the good, the bad, or the ugly, take ownership of self because that's what's going on with you right now. And then look at that and say, is this where I need to be?
What resources? Who's there? What can I do to move past this point? Is this the time?
Time plays a very important part too. So taking all these things into consideration, but also be your biggest cheerleader, if you're not in your own corner, how do you expect somebody else to be there for you? It's not being conceited.
It's not being arrogant. Be your own cheerleader. Pat your own self on the back and say, girl, you got this.
[01:05:25] Speaker B: Go ahead, love it.
[01:05:27] Speaker A: You got this. Now, right now, to my natural eye, stuff is jacked up in the natural. But see, I see past that because I got vision. So you got to take ownership of self.
Create your vision for yourself.
Because see, this circumstance, the situation is temporary. See, I see past it. And so because I have the vision to see past it, that helps me to push through the process.
I can't get to the outcome. I can't get to the end product until I go through the process.
It's just like I love candles, but if you know how to make a candle, it's just the wax. But the wax has to be melted, which means there's going to be some heat. Hot.
H-O-T-T. There's going to be some heat in the process. And then once you pour it into the vessel, once you pour that in the vessel, all those experiences, all those people, all that stuff, you pour that heat in me and then when you pour it, then you process it and then it calms down, it cools and it settles. And the end product, once you put that wick, that self in there, you have the end product of a candle.
But through the process, people see the end. They see the prettiness, they see the glamour, they see the glitz, they see the end product but you don't know the process. You don't know my story. All you know is my name but you really don't know my story to get to the end product.
But I can't even go through the process if I don't take ownership of self and have a vision for myself.
[01:07:39] Speaker B: Family are you grieving?
Are you depressed?
Consider ownership, self evaluation and management. If you or someone you know are dealing with mental health issues or substance abuse, please call the National Helpline at 1806 six two help he LP or 4357 confidential free 24 hours a day, 365 day is a year.
This episode is dedicated to the families of the slain victims in the Uvalde, Texas school shooting. We stand with you. We are praying with you. You might join in grieving, but you're going to come out healed. I love you and thank you.
